Hello, and welcome back. This is the third video in a three-part series of video recordings, as I just stand here and record the audiobook version of my book, Contending but Not Contentious. We are in a different studio setup. This is set up more for audio than for visual, so it is not the most beautiful backdrop we have this time, but it is good for audio. The first two parts we have already covered in previous videos. This third video is about the spirit behind the fight, the, quote-unquote, fights that we get into. Now, I am friends with, and friendly to, a lot of people who are different than me. I am family with, and pastor alongside, so many different churches here in Southern California that maybe I would not line up with exactly in every area, but I want to be friendly to them, and I want to be kind and not have a contentious spirit, and that is what this part of the book is about. It is just a call for us, even in our disagreements, to have the spirit of Jesus Christ, which means the Holy Spirit. Even in a fight, I believe the fruit of the Spirit ought to come out: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness. Those are traits that sometimes, when there are differing opinions and some fights happen about these particular issues, get thrown out the window, meekness and gentleness and all of that. I believe Jesus was fierce and tough, and yes, He turned tables, and yet that did not characterize His ministry. So I think we should have that fire in our gut sometimes, but also have the spirit of Jesus Christ, and that is what this section of the book is about. Then there is an appendix at the end of the book that talks about our church’s involvement with the Global Independent Baptist Fellowship, and why I am encouraged by fellowshipping with other pastors who think like me and who can sharpen me, and why our church is involved in partnering together with other churches like ours to get other churches planted and to see missionaries that we can support among our churches. So the final appendix section of the book is also included in this video, to talk about fellowships broadly and the Global Independent Baptist Fellowship more specifically. So enjoy this video.
Part Two: How to Fight
Chapter 5: Contenders, Not Contentious
I do not know how to say this gently, so I will just say it: perhaps one of the greatest turnoffs to our movement is a contentious spirit. I do not think the next generation is afraid of abrasiveness. The masses love President Trump precisely for his abrasiveness, and abrasive men like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson are national sensations. The Ultimate Fighting Championship feeds on this hypermasculine aura in our culture, and abrasiveness sells. I sense a broad undercurrent of pushback against the emasculation that feminism has wrought in our culture. In church culture, too, abrasiveness over certain things is applauded. In my area, although John MacArthur was a pastor who got attention through COVID by going all the way to the Supreme Court, many other pastors were vocal far earlier than he was. Some Calvary Chapel guys, like Mike McClure, Rob McCoy, and Jack Hibbs, were making bold stands and taking the heat through the media spotlight placed on them, yet we admire their abrasive stand for our right to assemble. A generation or two ago, abrasiveness was expected in church. The harsher the preaching, the better. It was not good preaching until you named names and crushed toes. Fire and brimstone was run-of-the-mill. Times have changed. We have not completely lost the right to be abrasive, but the style of the fight has certainly changed with the sensitivities of the next generation. That is not right or wrong, good or bad; it is just a fact. Pastor David Heter said that some people are more swordy and some are more gracey. Back when the whole culture was more swordy, churches were more swordy. But is that too authoritarian now? With changes in the culture, can you still be effective and keep the spirit of the fight alive? We do not want to swing so far gracey that we never engage in the fight. Some things are worth fighting for, if not now, then at some point down the line.
Gracious Prickliness
I have been using the word prickly to describe a kind of protection of what we cherish. Although prickly can get pokey and uncomfortable, it does not have to be a bad thing. I admire men who hold strong positions with a sweet disposition. One great fear in writing about fighting is miscommunicating my spirit behind the fight. I never want to convey a superior attitude or imply that I think my brothers in Christ are evil people. A sour attitude has no place in a Christian’s life, and the Holy Spirit should still bear fruit even in a fight. The fruit that He bears is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. I hate to say it, but it is rare to see the Holy Spirit’s fruit in a fight. I wish that were not so.
Chapter 6: How to Fight
What does the Bible say about the spirit of the fight? I believe we can contend without being contentious, but that kind of spirit requires the Holy Spirit. Let us yield to the Scriptures even in how we fight.
How to Fight According to James
James 3:13-18: “Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.” Verse 13, “meekness of wisdom”: many people say they know God, but they do not reflect His Spirit. A wise man, however, lives with meekness of wisdom, or lives with wisdom as an inwrought grace of the soul. His behavior is not outward only, but it is behavior that is primarily directed toward God’s glory. Chunk and Thunder: my Uncle Ernie was a K-9 cop and had two Volkswagen-sized Rottweilers named Chunk and Thunder. They were the biggest dogs I had ever been around, yet one night, in my uncle’s living room, they were typical playful puppies. They were so well trained that we could put a piece of popcorn in our lips, and they could ever so gently pluck it out without ever even touching our face. The next day, though, we went to the training yard and watched them in action. The bad guy put on a protective sleeve and pretended to hit Uncle Ernie. The playful puppy disappeared, and a trained monster jumped into action, chased down the bad guy, latched onto his arm, and took him down without a problem. That Rottweiler was pure power, but in the living room the night before, it was pure gentleness. That is meekness. Verses 14 and 16, “envying and strife”: if a holy fight breaks out and it devolves into name-calling and angry tirades, you know immediately that it is not from God. “Lie not against the truth,” verse 14 says. Do not kid yourself. That was the flesh, not some kind of righteous indignation. That was not heavenly fire; it was hellfire, described in verse 15 as “earthly, sensual, devilish.” It was of this earth only, connected to the senses, apart from the Spirit. It was demonic. Envy and strife bring confusion and evil, but God’s wisdom brings peace. True heavenly leadership is “pure,” with no ulterior motive, “peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated.” My wife is one of the most approachable people I know. People can come to her with anything and know she will tell them the truth but love them deeply no matter what. “Full of mercy and good fruits”: the fruit of the Spirit should characterize every conversation of a Christian. “Without partiality, and without hypocrisy”: you can understand both sides, and your motives are pure. “Sown in peace”: I know a lot of preachers who can get really angry about things really quickly, but God’s wisdom “is sown in peace of them that make peace.” God, give us godly wisdom from above when contending. Keep us from a contentious spirit.
How to Fight According to Paul
Second Timothy 2:24-26: “And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” These verses struck me in my first year of pastoring. I was in a season where I knew of so many various sins and was struggling to know how best to handle each situation. Some days I was swordy; some days I was gracey; see the previous chapter. I had seen cases where dropping the heavenly hammer in Jesus’ name had not gone so well, and a spirit of rebuke was not handled according to the Holy Spirit’s leading. I did not want that. I wanted to help people the way God wanted me to help them, and this passage helped me understand the spirit behind any rebuke. “Must not strive”: my fight cannot be for the fight’s sake. “But be gentle”: I understand this phrase most deeply as a parent. I want so badly for my children to understand the point, but I want to be so careful with their hearts. “Apt to teach”: instead of dropping the hammer, I must first ask myself, have I done my part to teach them the right way? “Patient”: this means time and repetition. I cannot expect to settle the issue after only one interaction. “In meekness”: see the previous section on Chunk and Thunder to see power under control. “Instructing those that oppose themselves”: instead of framing the conversation like my position is threatened, I want to try to help people see an area in which I think they are hurting themselves. The goal is them, not me. “That they may recover themselves”: the goal of the fight is to help people avoid the traps that will hurt either them or the next generation. The intent behind the fight matters, and motives show. God, give us a heart to help people while contending, but keep us from a contentious spirit.
How to Fight According to Jesus
Matthew 11:28-30: “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” I do not agree with everything in the book Gentle and Lowly, but I like how it discusses the only description Jesus gives of His own heart: “I am meek and lowly in heart.” Jesus could have said anything, yet He said meek and lowly. Our contending for truth ought to ooze with humility. Some who like to emphasize Jesus flipping tables would like to only flip tables themselves. Their whole ministry is heavy on the whip but light on meek and lowly. Although Jesus did flip tables, it was not the character of His life and ministry. God, give us the humility of Your Son when contending, and keep us from a contentious spirit.
Chapter 7: Conclusion
The next two generations: I am the next generation, but I also have a heart for the generation following me. I want them to take what they have been given and train the next generation after them, 2 Timothy 2:2: “And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.” Will my grandkids enjoy what I have enjoyed? I recently read about a man who had not sung hymns for decades. When he could not communicate with his driver in Russia, they found that they could sing hymns together. His mind was flooded with memories from his childhood. He spoke almost longingly of these great songs, as if he was missing something by not singing them for years. When I read Spurgeon or the Puritans, I sometimes wonder if our generation is missing some of what should have been passed down to us. I then think about the next generation and wonder what will be lost in transmission. For my part, I want to keep that intergenerational connection alive. My dad’s approach is not my approach. I am quite similar to, yet quite different from, my dad. He never lost his church planter roots, but I have never been a church planter. As a church planter, he had to figure things out, so he led his staff like that too. In over a decade of working with him, we rarely had training talks; we mostly just did the work. But with my younger staff, things are different. We have candid discussions about all kinds of things. I love it, and they seem to like it too. Naturally, I want them to love what I love.
I Love What We Have
When I am thinking of where I want to be in the future, I know that who I let influence me will determine my direction. I love our inheritance, and I want to stay here and inhabit the land. Because of that, I want to listen to those who are beyond me in age and on the spectrum of conservatism within our Baptist movement. I love people right of me, some within our group and some outside of it. I read and listen to as much as I can from them, because their writings are comparatively sparse. Anyone can talk about the weaknesses of our movement, and there seems to be no shortage of people trying to articulate why we should not do the things we are doing. Well, human tendency will naturally break things down over time. It does not need our help. I am looking for brothers who love it as much as I do, and I am so blessed to have so many like-minded friends. Many modern authors are influential because they are so nice, and yet their doctrine is not like ours. I would like to help the next generation value our inheritance, by at least not turning them off through a contentious spirit. More so, I would like to show through my own positions and disposition that what we have is great. I see no need to try to improve on what we have inherited. The way our generation goes about ministry is a little different from the previous generation, but we are trying to handle change in an honorable and careful way. We are not mad. We have nothing to prove. We just want God to be glorified. The tone of our contending matters now more than ever before. God, help us to be timeless contenders without a contentious spirit.
To My Brothers
To my brothers: this has been a call for listening. The next generations have a lot of good questions, and if we or they cannot find the answers within our group, it is easier than ever to find the answer somewhere else. This has been a call for reasoning. Gone are the “because I said so” days, when congregations and staff fell in line with the pastor without question. I hope this book has offered a reasonable approach to our position. Finally, this has been a call for a biblical disposition. God help us to never turn people away from the truth simply because we frame our arguments poorly.
Thank You
I am committed to try to honor the past, the present, and the future. In closing, I want to say three things to the previous generation. Thank you: thank you seems trite, like something you say after someone passes you the salt. This is so much more than that. When I think about the hours and hours of work, day after day and decade after decade, I cannot begin to describe how much respect I have for you. I am just getting going, and I am already tired. I cannot imagine what kind of resilience it takes to stay faithful for a lifetime. I see now why you often say it is only by the grace of God. Thank you for passing on such a wonderfully Christian legacy. I wish everyone in the world could experience the kinds of churches and friendships that I have known, and I have only seen the tip of the iceberg. Thank you. We are not done with you: in saying thank you, do not take that to mean that we are done with you. Oh, no. We need you now more than ever before. I think of some of my friends who have no influence from any previous generations, and I am a little saddened by that. I feel like they are missing out on a trove of godly wisdom, and I truly wish the best for them. So thank you for your continued investment. We need your voice and appreciate your input. Across America elders are being cast aside, but I hope our movement is smarter than that. Please keep helping us. What you did, we will do too: last, I cannot tell you, “Do not worry,” without sounding like your mom, but I will say this: what you did, we will do too. I am passionate about the same things as you. I am thankful for the freedom to try some new ideas, like you did in your generation, but my heart is the same as yours. We want to help people. We want people to be saved. We want churches to grow. We want homes to be strengthened, preachers to be trained, and worshippers to be gathered from all corners of the world. We plan on giving our lives to the same things you did. Thank you for showing us the way.
Appendix: Why I Appreciate the GIBF
At first I was indifferent to the Global Independent Baptist Fellowship, the GIBF. My dad was involved in the leadership. We hosted two meetings, and I went to others when they were close, but when I became the pastor of our church, I could not make it out very much. I figured I had too much going on at home to worry about what was going on out there. Besides, what did they have to offer? Quite a bit, actually. I still have small kids at home, so I cannot travel as much as I would like, but I have come to appreciate the GIBF much more now than I did before. I appreciate it on a personal level, on a church level, and on a global level. Without this being an apologetic, here are my two cents’ worth on the fellowship.
I Need It Personally
In the February 2024 GIBF meeting, Pastor Jeremy Reagan said, “I first went to these meetings because I enjoyed them. Now I go because I need them.” I cannot make it through life alone, and these are some of the ways that fellowships help me personally. I enjoy it: I like it. I like going to events that we are not hosting. I like attending something without thinking about who will take out the trash. I love getting together with my brothers and sisters and talking shop for a few days, working on the business and not in the business, as the saying goes. It is sharpening: as pastors, we are sharpened in many ways, by the constant study of God’s Word, by our critics, by experience, and by reading, to name a few, but a special kind of sharpening happens by other pastors. I get preaching: I listen to preaching recordings and schedule guest preachers at our church, but I am usually the one giving out the Word. I love it and would not rather do anything else, but it is nice to hear preaching directed at pastors. I go home fired up to do ministry. It is encouraging: encouragement is like adrenaline to a weary soul. Sometimes I need a challenge, or a swift kick in the seat of the pants, but other times I just need some encouragement from my brothers. It builds friendships: someone said Jesus’ greatest miracle was finding twelve close friends in His thirties. Close friendships are rare, so I love the short opportunities to catch up with godly friends. Friendships can happen at church, but at the back of both friends’ minds is the pastor-church member relationship. This can often feel more like an investment than a friendship. Friendships between pastors, and between pastors’ wives, have none of that subtext.
We Need to Sharpen Each Other
Beyond the individual benefits listed above, there are broader benefits from rubbing shoulders with good friends. Fellowship meetings are not the only times, but they are the easiest times to make great connections with so many people. Here are some more benefits of coming together. Brotherhood: when I get isolated in ministry, I start to wonder, am I the only crazy person? Everyone in my town tells me I am. YouTube and books tell me I am. Social media tells me I am. The growing consensus seems to be that fundamentalism is waning. Strict baptism and communion are foreign. The standards your dad held in the ’80s were only because it was the ’80s. After all, everyone loved church back then. That is how he planted the church so easily. Now things are different. Am I the only crazy one? Am I the only one who thinks like this? Am I the only one trying to hold on to something that feels important? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill, or are there others who think like me? The GIBF says there are others, and I appreciate that. Accountability: although I have my dad and a church full of people who would revolt if I made any doctrinal or philosophical shifts, I still appreciate other men who can help me think through any changes I would like to make. I appreciate my like-minded brothers who have invested in me and want to see me succeed, but also want me to do it in the right way. That accountability is helpful, even if it is only from the social pressure of the group. I do not begrudge it; I welcome it. Mentorship: coupled with accountability is mentorship. I love what someone said about the GIBF: “It is the only place where mentors become friends.” There is no caste system or hierarchy, but I do maintain a high respect for the men who were fighting battles before I was even born. Regardless of my high regard for all the friends of my father, they choose to treat me like a friend, and I appreciate that. What they have stood for, I want to stand for too. Investment in others: you never forget the people who invest in you, and a regular fellowship meeting gives givers the chance to give. I determined that, whatever means God gives me, I want to intentionally find someone to invest in. That does not mean only financial means. It means sitting by strangers at meals and hearing their stories. It means connecting two people who have never met. It means taking someone out to eat. It means praying with and for someone. Everyone is looking for someone to reach out to them. I determined that instead of waiting for someone to come befriend me, I will go befriend them.
It Helps Our Church
I come away from every meeting so excited and thankful to be able to go home and serve God with renewed passion. These are the ways I try to translate my personal benefits to the church’s benefit. Fired up: I hope I am a better preacher when I get home. After three days of good preaching and good conversations, I had better be. This energy transfers to the services and inspires the congregation to serve the Lord with vigor. Inspired: I gather fresh ideas wherever I go. Although I am not always rested after a trip, I am always rejuvenated. My cup is filled up with new ideas and encouragement to keep me going strong. Equipped: these fresh ideas make me a better leader, and GIBF meetings help to equip me with tools to help our congregation. “Oh, I was just talking to someone about this,” or “Someone just recommended a book on that topic.” I can never cover every resource available in the world, but I have trusted friends who vet the resources for me. That is helpful. Challenged: most importantly, I come away from each meeting as a better Christian. That is the greatest benefit of all. Even if I get no resources or new ideas, I am always challenged to walk closer to God, and I need that regularly. I appreciate the GIBF for all these reasons, but the church I pastor needs this last one most. I need to be a better Christian.
Movements Happen Beyond the Local Church
I would never want to give the impression that I think anything supersedes the authority of the local church, but any honest look at Scripture or history shows that cooperation between autonomous churches can grow into something powerful when put together. Organization: organization can be as simple as publishing a date and a room to meet in and seeing who shows up, similar to what Heartland Baptist Bible College has been able to do with the National Church Planting Conference. The size of the output has grown over time because it has become a trusted system. Loosely organizing around a set of shared beliefs means we can fast-track some things that would be nearly impossible for any one local church to accomplish on its own. Heartland: I love my alma mater, so I am happy to associate with other churches who might send kids to the same college where my kids will likely end up. I like what the college teaches and trust what it will teach our students. Its gathered expertise offers well-rounded training for ministry that I could not accomplish on my own. The Baptist Times: the Baptist Times magazine is run by Bible Baptist Church of Stillwater, Oklahoma, but the variety of contributors ensures broad perspectives are covered. These perspectives help me and the church I pastor, and the Baptist Times is successful largely due to church coordination. Church planting and missions: Pastor Rick McQueen made it clear at the February 2024 meetings that churches start churches, but it was astonishing to think of how the National Church Planting Conference hosted by Heartland every January has grown over the past two decades. The offerings grew from $330,000 total to $30,000 per church planter. The total annual offering going to church planting is almost a million dollars, and that is from a bunch of guys loosely agreeing to show up in the same room at the same time and bring some money to give away. It is remarkable to see what is possible when churches band together. The Apostle Paul took up an offering for the people in Jerusalem, and our home missions and foreign missions are rocket-launched when we work together like this. I appreciate the GIBF for being a hub for meetings, a magazine, a college, and missions efforts. For those reasons, I am in.
Well, that concludes our reading of Contending but Not Contentious. I hope that was a blessing to you. I hope the spirit of it was right and in line with Jesus Christ. There have already been some who have brought up some disagreements, and I am open to that. I understand that. I just wanted to make it clear that, look, we all draw lines somewhere, and you draw lines differently than I draw lines. I totally understand that. But we cannot pretend that we do not draw lines. We do. So how you draw those lines, and how soon you draw those lines, formulates which circle or camp or group you fall into, and I just wanted to be honest about that, upfront about that, and also convey a spirit behind it that I hope we can have when our line is not the same as your line. I love everybody. I want to be friends with everybody, and I also want to be true to how we believe God is leading us in our church. So thank you for watching. Thank you to our church for allowing me the opportunity to write this book and to put these videos out there to help our church understand where we are and who we are as Baptists and Independent Baptists. It is all just a beautiful thing. I have loved it and appreciated the opportunity to do this. I hope it has been a blessing to you. If you would like to purchase the book, you can find it on Amazon, Contending but Not Contentious. It is in paperback, it is in hardback, and it is on Kindle. If you would like to email me for more information, you can contact us through our YouTube page or the other means through our church. God bless you, and we will see you in the next video.
